Steven Burkhart: My name is Steven with Burkhart Creative Agency. Basically we like, well, you basically make content for small businesses. We give them a chance to get their name out there, send their message out there. We, we do dabble on the front end of things as far as like getting them set up with their messaging. Is that where they’re talking about the right things? Otherwise they’re just making videos of just, you know, the kind of aimless and and so basically we help them focus their message. We create content that is in like the voice that they want to be in as far as having like the tone and the kind of like the relationship qualities that the small business owner would like and then be able to put that stuff out there in the right way so that it gets engaged with and actually get some traction.

Steven: And I know that’s something like a lot of small business owners struggle with is when they, you know, when they take the scariest of, of passing the Baton to somebody else to create content. You know, there’s always that fear that whoever takes over won’t really like produce work that sounds like them and ends up like it ends up not, not communicating the same way, doesn’t actually do as well. Like there was a business owner I talked to who owns a brewery in Phoenix and he was saying like, Oh, like every time someone else posts stuff, like it doesn’t do well. Every time I post stuff it does really well. And I think it’s because there was a disconnect between like the brand and the voice of the brand and what other people were posting. So that’s kind of a, a long intro.

Steven: But basically what we’re doing here is meaning up and just really giving small business advice. This is the digital hustle show and I basically just interview other people who are in the marketing space or small business owners and they can basically like share with us there experienced in there the things that they’ve learned along the way that would help small business owners grow their following and actually make money by leveraging content. So that’s kind of Mike Singh. So anyways, Jordan, if you want to go ahead and, and take a swing at that and just talk a little bit about what you do for businesses. Cause I think we do something a little bit similar but also just probably have a little bit of a different take on it too. So

Jordan Trask: Yeah, definitely. And I think there are a lot more of the visual and I’m more of the backend I like to say. So I started prefocused about, wow, I guess it’s been three or four, maybe four or five years now. I don’t know if it’s always been in the back of my mind, just what pretty focuses. It’s, it’s the idea that concept before you’re actually spending money, understanding what you’re doing before you’re promoting it, understanding who your audience is, understanding who your ideal culture is or what your ideal culture is within the workplace and really building that brand identity that then guys like Steven can communicate really well. You know, whether that’s visually, whether on your website, whether that’s just during events. You have different you know, just every, every business has different promotions. You know, you go to casinos, it’s a little bit more flamboyant.

Jordan: Do you go to senior homes? And it’s very, you know, all about safety and health and wellbeing and stuff like that. So it’s about really understanding the business at its core. And that’s where I lean Capri focuses because when it comes to marketing and everything is derived from a purpose for your identity, it’s not driving from that or funneling from that and going this way. It doesn’t make sense to people when you’re just an option. You’re just a service. You’re just a product. There’s no experience there. There’s no memory there. It’s, it’s a give and take. Right. If you may, so I guess long story short, as I worked with the companies in developing that, what are, what are your core competencies? What are your brand characteristics? What’s your personality? You know, if you had a character for your business, you know, who would it be?

Jordan: Would it be done to the mighty mouse? Right? Would it be, you know, a little mouse and an elephant? And then really painting the picture of your main ideal customer who’s going to value you absolutely the most and finding it three or four or five other categories where people will value you but they’re not going to sustain your loyalty. And that’s a lot of fun for me. My business partner, his name is steel, he works for blue soft websites. And so we, we really work hand in hand with him. Taking that discovery, implementing it into a strategy, us mapping it out, working with guys like Steven to bring it to life really.

Steven: I think that’s super huge. Like I was literally just talking to someone the other day and they’re talking about like how they’re struggling to make content and stuff like that. And and you can kind of tell the suit by looking at their Instagram, like they’d have like some images that were this way and like some work that was that way. And it was kinda like, not just like unfocused, not to

Steven: Totally drop the focus term in there, but it, people put a lot of pressure on themselves to try to figure that out really quickly. Right. Nice people put a lot of pressure on themselves to figure that out right away. A lot of people really do need help. And I know like even for me it’s been like journey, but I feel like I’m still on figure out like what exactly is it that I stand for? And I think most people, and I’m sure you could, I’d love for you to touch on this honestly, since you’ve done like some, a lot of the pregame, which is Mmm,

Steven: People think that when they are focusing a lot that they’re like killing their ability to make money with a bunch of different people. But the reality is, is at least something that I found refreshing in being more focused, especially with like on small business owners and the industries that I want to work with you as I get more knowledgeable, I have like more depth of knowledge in that business. And so I’m sure, like I’d say, I’d love for you to touch on this as you hone in what kind of customer you want to have. You actually get to know that customer better. They become like a best friend and you end up actually being able to reach them better. And like someone from the outside might be saying like, okay, well that’s cool. It’s like so you wanna just make more money. But that’s not the point. Like the point is, the better you get to know someone, the more you actually like get to care for them because you know how to, if that makes sense. So I’d love for you to touch a little bit on like how, what the advantages to like really honing in on it

Jordan: For a specific customer. Yeah. It really comes to relate ability. I mean, you don’t hang out with somebody that, you don’t have a lot of interests with Daniel Church here, right? You know, you can have a restaurant that makes really good biscuits and gravy, but if you’re targeting a customer that really just wants eggs and bacon, you know, what are we doing here? You’re just spinning your wheels. So you know, I guess long story short, to answer your question, you know, being able to understand yourself first. It’s just like people, you know, I understand who I am, what I stand for, you know, who am I at my core that allows me to get better people. I know what my tendencies are, I know what my weaknesses are, I know what my vulnerability is, right? And when I’m open with those types of things and I share those types of things, other people are more willing to share those things with me.

Jordan: So that’s where it starts with the business. You being open on those and it allows people to connect with you. So sometimes you don’t even really have to Mark it. Mmm. You know, for me, for example, you know, I’ve, I’ve been in a bunch of startups, I’ve, I’ve worked in marketing agencies, I’ve, I’ve seen, you know, work for corporations, local corporations, and then, you know, complete medical startups, right? And you see the different culture. So me being able to say, I have that experience, be able to say I have, yeah, I know what a startup looks like. I know what a great global corporate, a global organization looks like. And here’s some of the pitfalls. Here’s some of the things that you might face. Here’s some of the ways I’ve failed over the years and what I’ve learned just what we’re doing right now. And that really is what draws people in because they’re intrigued. They believe in that. They value that and they believe in you as so first and foremost, that’s, you know, I like to say failing forward as often as you can is one of the best Martin tactics you can have. But the second is always like you keep bringing up is understanding your customers because that’s where the dots get to be connected. And I think that’s where a lot of the times the darts are missed. Cause we’re shooting at the wrong board

Steven: A hundred percent. Well and it’s at that point it’s tough for anyone to create like content that’s going to be able to reach out for people because if they don’t know, like you said, it’s like they, if they don’t know what they’re aiming for, then you know what I mean? Then like how do you make content for that? Like how do you shoot a video if you have no idea who it’s for?

Jordan: Yeah, that’s what social media is so scary. It should be intimidating to people and I think they make it easy to do. They make it easy to manage. They’re even pay-per-click now on Google. They make it really user friendly. You can automate it and stuff, but if you really don’t know what you’re doing and you really don’t know where you’re aiming, like you said, you can waste so much money for that one. And at the end of the day, if you spend $10,000 in one month and you get a hundred customers, you know, what is that a 10 is that about 10 to one return or do we go about a hundred bucks a customer? Right? Yeah. Long week anyways, you gotta that’s, that’s your, that’s, that’s what your, your reality is and that’s how much you spending and that’s that for you. That’s like this is average or this is just what it is.

Jordan: Well, but if yes, $10,000 on Google ads and you get 500 customers and you’re targeting specific searches or you’re targeting specific people in specific places that have certain behaviors and basically, you know, you can have results. Anything that you do in marketing, quantitative measures, social media, publishing, publishing, publishing, you’re always going to eventually, again, somebody you’re going to close by that need you right now. But if we’re not working towards the longterm goal here, we’re not working towards driving down acquisition costs, sustain the business, hiring the right people to service those customers. We don’t have a good customer loyalty program or a customer service in general to nurture those customers. You’re going to have to just keep starting over. You’re going to have to keep doing the same stuff on Facebook and you’re going to get old. So that’s really the point of it all is brief focused stuff. It’s not just to be effective, right. To have good marketing, it’s for you. It’s to save you money, it’s to sustain a business and it’s to create something which I would think everybody wants to do when you start a business is to create a big business or a successful one. At least we don’t want, we don’t want to stay stagnant forever.

Steven: Definitely. I think that’s, that’s, it’s funny you say that because just the other day I was, I was kind of doing like I’m a pro and con scaling businesses Because one of the things I was thinking about is like, no one, no one’s going to hire, you know, a marketing company who’s not looking to scale because they’re happy with where they’re at. But the reality is, is like you said, like the first thing that happens when you don’t scale or grow your business is it ends up becoming stagnant, like you said. And so it’s like one of those things where all of a sudden you start introducing all these problems and you get like boredom and you get lack of creativity. When you’re not scaling, you’re not bringing in new talent and new ideas, new minds to be able to like help stimulate the business and actually produce better products.

Steven: And so not scaling is really the death I think of a lot of companies unless they have like a really specific kind of business. Yeah. So I think that’s super great insight. Now you’ve talked about a little bit about you’re working in a lot of Starbucks startups is that it was working in the suburbs, kind of like really what got you started and like having your own business where you’re doing this for companies or like what kind of got you kickstarted and thinking you wanted to do that. Because let’s be honest, running a small business is like, not like a pleasure cruise. It’s, it’s a ton of work. So what, what was so compelling about it that you wanted to jump?

Jordan: That’s a be honest, Steven. I mean, I think thesis, I guess you’d call it a thesis paper research paper in college. And I’ve just always been really burdened. Bye. Add the Tennessee how cheesy it is. How you know, it’s, it’s right, it’s persuasive. And I’ve always been like, how can you create something that makes people feel your business, that makes you feel your brand? I in one of the, and so really I studied that for awhile as I went, as I worked in corporate American and new startups and stuff. I just always had that in the back of my mind. I’ve always had notebooks, not that I’m stealing stuff from people, but just the things that I see the actualities of businesses. So I think, and to be honest with you, you got to a point where I was writing my business plan, creating the website.

Jordan: Still didn’t quite have the name yet, but I ended up getting fired. I was working at a startup and they literally wiped everybody in and brought in. We built everything processes, business marketing, branding, everything from the ground. It was like five of us guys working together and one gal, and they literally wiped it and it brought cheaper employees in. They were struggling or something. I really still don’t know to this day, but it forced me, it really forced me to start my business. I had shoulder surgery, I was riding a Harley, I couldn’t go anywhere. I’m on pain pills. I got four kids at the time and my wife wasn’t working. So I literally was like, all right, here we go. And I think everybody doubted it, doubted it, didn’t understand it. And it took me a while to explain it.

Jordan: Probably a year think the first year I made land, it was hard. Yeah, we’re on me. We’re all my marriage, everything. But totally, it really, it really made me say, you know, Dorothy, is this like, is this really how you feel? Is this, is this real? Like, do you think this is going to work or is this just an idea or a dream or is this important? And I want to finally realize like this stuff is important. We’re bridging the gap between the idea and marketing. You know, from dreams in reality, right? With business. Because so many people have the same thing as me, but they don’t, they don’t want to put the time in to do it. So by the time I helped my brand for a year or whatever, it was, understood my message, how I’m selling it, what my services are.

Jordan: It took a while, I took a lot of loss, but now, you know, we’re, we’re, I think about quarter of a million this year just in revenue and I don’t even really work that much anymore just because we’re helping businesses sustain. Okay, this is trust us and they understand, Hey, at any point I can reach out to Jordan or whoever else is on the team and they’re going to give me awesome feedback so that, I guess it’s a three part instruments. I was forced and I have had to do the work. Like I know you’re all about that. And then I have to be able to be relayed to me. I had to be able to say, Hey, this is, this works. It works for me and I have to be able to prove that if I’m going to sell it. That is a good point. Provable results. That’s a, that’s a huge, there’s a lot of people online

Steven: That they claim they can help you, but then there’s no, no, no proof. So especially in something that’s like a little less physically evident. Like I can make a video and prove that I can shoot video, but like it’s hard to like prove that you can do results unless you have like a really solid case study. So it’s school that you’ve been able to manage with that and congratulations on the growth. That’s super awesome that you’ve come that far. Obviously like you can’t, like in this day and age news spreads so fast if someone’s like not, you know, it was full of crap. So like it’s cool that you’re making that money. Cause obviously it’s legit because otherwise you wouldn’t have return customers and you wouldn’t have, you know, you wouldn’t be retaining them. Retaining them.

Jordan: It’s funny, our first major clients, Mmm it was illegal company and man they battled me so bad. So many people look at me, they think I’m young, I’m 35. Yeah, I got five kids. And so I’m pretty grown. And I think they just underestimate and then they want to believe what they want to believe. It took a year for us to just really persuade them and now it’s one of our best clients. And I think that’s what it’s all about is just learning how it’s a feel for right and then be humble about your success and it always finds you as long as you’re consistent. Unfortunately marketing, you know more than anybody’s hard to compete here cause everybody’s seeing the same thing. So you have to understand too that and you do, you’re going to know how good I am or how good I think I am. I’m going to have to prove themselves. Okay.

Steven: Well, and I think that one of the things I’ve discovered, at least with some of the brands, not necessarily even brands I worked with, the brands of just like that, I know that like really stand out as unique. There are magazines, websites, blogs, other businesses who are hungry to work with, someone who is unique. And I think embracing the uniqueness of your brand is super huge because then you’re going to open those flood Gates. Like for example, one of my friends Stacy opened a, has a men’s spa called redo men and it’s like very like BA, it’s like very like in your face and like F bombs are being dropped and stuff like that. She has no end to how much PR she gets, which most people would be like, Oh, that’s crazy. Like no one would ever should ever swear.

Steven: But like she has people that she works with who love her because she actually is like super bold and that’s like what they want. They want those bold people to come in. And that’s just like one example of like one industry. Mmm. But I think that’s one of those things where it’s like, don’t be afraid to stand out because there are people who are trying to keep vanilla off of there blogs, off of their websites, off of their like, you know, magazines and they want something unique that stands out. And so when you’re actually embraced that and embrace your uniqueness, I think that’s when you start to cut through the market a little bit. Mmm. And you know, and that just, you know, you’re part of that as well when you talk about how you really got your message focusing. Mmm. You got your message focused. Then that’s when you started like really seeing the progress because you’re like really knew what you stood for. And that like was kind of like a red, not red flag, but like, like a flag that says like, here I am, like, I know what it stand for, I know how to help you. And that way people can actually see it, recognize it for what it is and actually know that they want to do business with you.

Jordan: Yeah. A lot of people don’t realize that competency and it’s not an arrogance. It’s been people want to be able to see like this dude can help him. You know, this dude cares, Oh this dude is good or this guy is consistent or whatever. They, they need that reaffirmation all the time because there’s so much noise in the marketplace and if you’re coming to somebody you’re like, Hey, I can help you. Maybe I can help you here and say no, this is exactly how I can help. I think that’s where anybody in this versus marketing, you know, I, I’ve done everything, we’re all in the hats and startups and stuff and I mean I’m not, that’s not something I’m boasting about cause there’s a lot of stuff I’m not good at like social media. I’m just not really into, you know, it’s just not, I don’t believe it works in this.

Jordan: You have a specific product or brand that that suits the social media fast paced feed. Right. But really focusing in and end and stop trying to reach for stuff. You know, we can do, I do websites, I do whatever I could to make money. I do print media. I’m not a designer. I didn’t go to science school. I’m an artist. But it’s, I realized that it’s not just, you know, it’s not about me making money. It’s actually a disservice to my clients. So I needed to really take that step back. Out of well just add integrity, right? And say, Hey, what am I really good at? Like, it’s real. What am I like really good at? And you hang your hat on. The gal you’re just talking about, that’s just who she is. Gary V I don’t, I’m big on argue with people on Gary Venus just because he’s around. He’s speaking kids, but his mouth and stuff. But Hey, that’s, he owns it. You know, people love that. Whatever, whatever. Yeah. But I’m trying to be something that you’re not just to make a buck because you can’t sustain that unless you’re studying it. Awesome.

Steven: Or unless asking as a career, which for me, if you, if you’ve seen my videos as a kid just fun ones. Like you can, you know, for sure that there’s not a chance I can go to acting school. I wouldn’t even get in. I wouldn’t even get in the front doors. So yeah, it’s exhausting. I think a business is exhausting enough to fake it on top of it is just, it’s like as from a selfish standpoint, it’s just not even worth wasting the energy. So that’s just my 2 cents.

Jordan: It’s a scary time right now too, cause there’s going to be a lot of people that are going to have, they’re gonna I think they have to do that too, right? I mean this is the one you’re going to have to make money now. Especially marketing is going to be one of those industries with people you know are going to be jumping all in, cause something you could do from home. It’s something that you could sell so you can learn the basics of, and that’s cool because I’m actually developing a product right now with my business partner on. It’s for business owners and just your discernment really holding your Marc team accountable and the discernment with hiring those people. And it’s not to put people on blast because we also want to teach marketers the ins and outs. And this stuff’s important. Cause you have to understand, people have to understand not everybody cares about your business. You know, you can pay somebody a lot of money, they don’t care. And that’s really big in mine.

Steven: Well I guess you could say that you actually can’t pay people to care. And that’s, I think that’s what a lot of people do with a, and I’ve been guilty of it too, like, but I feel like that’s what a lot of people try to do with like Instagram and Facebook ads is they’re like paying to have people care. But the reality is if there’s nothing interesting for them when they show up to your website or like get on your email list, like it doesn’t matter how much you spend, like they’re just going to leave you because you can’t pay people to care.

Jordan: Yeah. Cool. I want to ask you like, so this is where, you know, Instagram’s a big, a big advocate, I guess for this work. It’s all about likes, man. It’s all about these. So when you’re doing your videos and stuff, like what D, what different things do you do to capture the ideal audience? Because I know there’s so many services out there, like, Oh, you know, I got a hundred likes, this video must be good. But to me I’m like, I could get 2020 likes and if 10 of those likes are my ideal customer I’m with. And I think people don’t understand that. So like, do you have any ideas or, or do you want to speak on that at all? Like what you’re doing videos.

Steven: Mmm. So I would say that for me, the thing that I’m focusing on right now isn’t necessarily the response. Because [inaudible]

Jordan: Yeah,

Steven: We just got done making fun of how Instagram ads, you can’t make people like you. But the reality is, is there’s also the other side of the coin, which is that like everything you put out there, like not everyone that even follows you sees your content. Like I have, you know, it’s nothing impressive, but I, you know, let’s just say I have like 300 followers, like 20 people. See my posts. And so the reality is is it’s, it’s hard to kind of gauge by how many people see something, whether or not the video is good or bad. I know for me the thing that I really consider the most is just making sure that whatever I talked about was like talking to the right person, if that makes sense. And I think later as that gains momentum that will be easier to tell like based on responses and like comments how well that like connected, if that makes sense.

Steven: But I think that’s kinda hard to tell where I’m at right now. I just feel like my Instagram following isn’t like at a high peak that a lot of those people are on there, if that makes sense. And so for me, like right now what I’m evaluating is like video quality. It’s just make like, just evaluating myself afterwards and saying like, okay, like, did I speak to the person that I want to speak to? Who is my ideal client that I tell stories? Do they give tips? They give something that actually helps them? Or did I just talk about my business or just talk to anyone listening. And so that’s why like for me, I’m like always intentional. Like the phrase small business is going to be in probably every video I ever shoot from like now till whenever. Because for me, like I always want people, anytime anyone ever sees my video, just like, you know, hear the word small business and know that that’s who I’m talking to and that’s who I’m talking about and that’s who the tips are for, if that makes sense.

Steven: And there’s different industries I’m looking to hit just because I feel like visually they creatively make more sense for someone who’s really in that more like cinematic space. So the video work. But and so, you know, making sure those storytelling is based around maybe their industries or maybe using them as an example. And as I worked with more people in that industry, then I can actually have more specific advice and suggestions and stories. So as of right now, I don’t really take the metrics right too seriously from Instagram only because of the fact that I know that they are basically like crunching my reach on purpose so that I spend money on ads to reach all the people that actually follow me. And so it’s just been too just like been experimenting. Like as I post a video that I think really is really good. I’ll like promote it just to kind of see what like kind of things that hits as far as like the reach well do people engage with it? Do people like it? People comments on it when you,

Jordan: I guess what I would call it?

Steven: Yes.

Jordan: I boosted, is Google right here? Only focusing on local? Yes. You’re not to get liked?

Steven: No, I definitely like I’m very Mmm. A very focused with my audience group. And so like right now obviously, I mean I think any, any small business owner that has friends, like your friends group is like the first group of people that follow you. And so I know that like if I go on Instagram and I boost a post and it says boosted to your audience, I know that like half of my audience is like not my ideal client in any way, shape or form. I’m like half of them are my friends or like whatever. And so for me, like I go in and I like do only local within a certain range, within a certain age group and people who have like interests in small business entrepreneurship. There are people who have identified as being a small business owner or an entrepreneur. And granted there’s lots of people who are entrepreneurs that are entrepreneurs, but at the same time at least I’m giving the benefit of the doubt and saying like, I only want to talk to, I want when I spend money, this video is only going to go to people who identify with a small business entrepreneur like life style and actual job titles that are local.

Jordan: And that’s so important, man. That’s cool because I wanted to touch that cause I think there might be some people that end up watching this that just, they don’t understand like those specifics make a big difference, you know? And just knowing, I think just for you knowing, Hey, I’m my niche or whatever you want to call it, my look, it is small businesses. I don’t want to do anything else. And that’s okay. You know, it can be scary because you want to cast that wide net at first and you want to capture everybody. But you have to understand that’s really difficult to do because not only are you competing [inaudible] attention of thousands or millions of people, but you’re competing against other businesses that are doing the same. So, right. That’s where it was pretty cool. For me, it came down, I don’t think I pigeon hole myself and small business or corporation or startups or whatever.

Jordan: I, mine is the ideal customer is you’re ready to take your company to the next step. No. Whether that’s at the beginning as a startup, you want to do it right and you really want to go through like a 14 day, 55 to 60 day process of really delving this out and saying, Hey, in this scenario, this is what we’re going to do in that scenario. This is what we’re going to do. This what we’re going to say. Here’s our audience where they’re going to be this time of year and you really want to map all that out on the front end. Let’s do it a lot. A lot of times you have businesses like you say that start and they were like, Oh crap man, I really have to do something. Unfortunately, a lot of those are wantrepreneurs and then it’s too late. Then they run out of capital.

Jordan: They run that time. They’ve got to get a child and there’s other businesses for like, okay, I got $40,000 left to spend on this marketing budget. I got him into something happened. Most cases I could talk to those people and say, you need to invest it in your business and you invest it in your business. The marketing takes care of itself. And so I, it’s, it’s different. Like, and it’s cool because, you know, I could say, Oh, I only want to do small business and that would probably still work. But there’s a lot of small business owners that are stubborn or traditional and they don’t want to change what they’ve always done because it’s worked in the past and it’s going to take something bad happening. Or we’re a new competitor coming on doing better that’s going to wake them up. And I don’t want to be the guy that talks him into it.

Jordan: I don’t want to sell them. I want them to be ready. And when you know that you’re confident, you could read those types of people and typically they’re willing to give and commit time and money, whatever it is, and resources to be better. And that’s the same thing with professionals and the type of employees that you want. You want those people that are gonna say, okay, I’ll look in the mirror today. What do I need to refine? You know, what am I doing that’s causing me to have these problems? Who’s on my team? That’s dragging their feet or what customer, it’s just a pain. And I’m tired of dealing with this customer a or whatever. I got to get rid of them, focus on somebody else. All this is a prefilled focus man. And then that allows you to do your job at amazingly high level cause you’re focused on quality for small businesses. So somebody comes in and says, this is my audience, this is my voice, this is my message, this is my values, is my competency.

Steven: Here’s our leadership.

Jordan: Let’s do a video. It’s a lot easier for creative guys like you to really maximize the potential of that.

Steven: Right. I think, I think that’s super smart and yeah, I mean like I’m just like relieved hearing about this imaginary situation where someone’s actually prepared. So yeah, it’s just, it’s, I mean my, my job is create something that they love that produces a great return on their investment and I can’t have a conversation about who their audience is, who they’re supposed to be hitting and all these other things like a half an hour before we got to shoot the video. You know, like that’s like a pretty lengthy conversation and quite a bit of a process. I mean, if it was, if it took two seconds, you probably couldn’t be able to do a business off of it. So obviously it takes some time and effort and investment. Mmm. But certainly having all those things figured out, it makes it so much easier for me to like shoot something.

Steven: Mmm. That is very specific. Like for example, like one thing, as I was reading an article on how like big businesses have been hiring like like blockbuster movie level directors to like shoot their stuff. And it was just interesting cause the whole thing was like how expensive they are and blah, blah, blah. But they have like this different mindset. They’re all about like creating a great story for an audience to connect to. And so I ended up watching a video that I forget who it was, but one of the big name Hollywood directors did a video with Chipotle and obviously like, Chipotle has had a really challenging, like last, you know, eight years, five years or whatever. So they had their Ebola stuff come out. But like the video was just like all talking about how like they really loved how much okay.

Steven: But they were like, it was in a video of the employees talking about how much they loved the effort and quality that they’re putting into their cooking. And it was just like, you know, just talking to that customer that’s concerned about the quality of the food, like reassuring them like, Hey, no, there’s actually people behind the counter, the counter that actually really do care about their job. They really care about like the quality of the food that they’re creating. You know, that commercial is not for me. I love Chipola always have still eight there, no matter what news came across. And maybe that’s terrible, but it didn’t phase me when one bit and I love [inaudible], but you know, for the person, the audience who’s concerned, that’s who that message was for. And you know what I mean? So they, they, they created a video that spoke to the problem the people were curious about and the audience that they needed. And so that, yeah, so that’s, that’s obviously brilliant tactic on their part. And knowing who that they want to talk to, what they wanted to talk to them about, and they creating a video about that. It wasn’t just like a random video about how delicious Chipotle it was. It was meant to fly in the face of like the bad PR, which is that the food isn’t like being made. Right. which I thought was pretty clever.

Jordan: That’s a great example because man, you know, there’s like so many different things that they could write. They could have just said, Hey, we screwed up. We’re better now. And it could have been over. Well, when you, that’s where you think about like that’s what, this is how my mind works. And it’s like, man, I wonder how many people are so pissed off. Yeah, they see that ad they skip it. I’m never using them again. No, they already ruined that perception. So that’s a, I don’t, I would like to see how much I’m going to research that. Is that it? I never heard about that. I know that they have done rats or something. I thought at least I read a while ago, but my wife still likes them. I guess for, for me. And so I was like, does it taste good?

Jordan: Is it healthy or they have problems. I’m probably going to keep me not like some sort of super over-exaggerating type of person, but advertising man, video marketing, it’s all interesting because at the end of the day it’s how many people are you reaching in a good way versus just how many people are reaching. Okay. So that’s why I asked you about the videos and it’s something to think about too for the people watching out there and you know, working with Steven and stuff, you know, I think his videos are great quality. I think it does a great job understanding the culture and everything. I just saw that brewery a couple of weeks ago. I saw the brewery one you published and I think it was really good with the, with the owner, it just matches his kind of, I hate to say, but kind of sell off like personality. It’s like really just detailed quality branding, everything. And you know when you’re doing a video though, understanding, unless somebody’s searching for your video to watch it, if you’re not captured in that first 10 seconds, if you’re not actually targeting the right audience in the morning is important obviously.

Jordan: But you’re not getting that message across 10 15 seconds. I think Steven does a great job of, to be honest with you, then you, you know, you can waste thousands dollars. Yeah. So take the time, you know, whether you hire me or not, that’s not even why I’m on here is to help you guys be better. Because at the end of the day, when you have a more confident business owner that understands what they’re doing and why they’re doing it, man, that trickles down and trickles down to your contractors, your employees, your customers. And so many business owners, you know, like a plumber, he knows how to fly. You don’t know how. You don’t know how to run his business or do his books. He might a remarket or he’d be a writer or creative. He’s not creative. So those types of people, they need help. They need somebody to give little tips here on there so that they can be successful because they can’t really do it on their own. It’s not their competency. Mmm. And thinking outside the box and understanding that, you know, you don’t know what’s best.

Steven: Yeah.

Jordan: And to really think things through. Pay off pay dividends.

Steven: Well I think so there’s, there’s two things I want to talk about. So one is that I think just to wrap up that point is that all of those other things that you mentioned a plumber would do are like not what he makes money doing. Like he doesn’t get paid an hourly to do the books. But that’s all taking time away from time he could actually be plumbing. And so to me, to me like why you hire a marketer in general is just to have someone to do the work incredibly better. So that you can actually spend your time doing what it is that you make money doing. Mmm. So, you know, if you’re, if like you’re the business owner, chances are you’re also like the main salesman unless you’ve hired, hired a sales staff, like your job is to go make sales. So then if you’re sitting around like, how do you like use a video camera then like, what good is that for you? I mean, like eventually it’ll work out. But like all of that is time that you could be out selling that you’re instead like wondering what shutter speed does.

Steven: Which like I said, it could pay off dividends in the future, but at the same time, like all you have to do is make the money and pay someone else to do it. They could do it better than you, faster than you, and then, then you’d be making even more money because now that you’re out selling and then you have videos out selling for you as well all the time on your website. Mmm. But you know, like it’s the best of sacrifices. It’s a tough thing. It’s business owners are always like in a tight spot where they’re, you know, trying to see where the money is going to go, where it’s going to be needed, and then trying to put it in the right spots. And I think, you know, just to kind of go back to what we were talking about before, like it’s all about like how much money do you want to spend to produce like average results?

Steven: It’d be better off to go through and make sure everything’s lined up just the way it needs to be. So that way when you spend money it goes exactly where it needs to go. And I think just to kind of piggyback off on that, just to like add a little contrast. You know, there’s like people like here’s what you’re trying to get people to do and then there’s like Gary V just to bring him up again. Gary V has like an absurd amount of energy. He’s really great at sales so he can fuel other people helping him build his brand. And so he is basically like becoming famous on his own. Like fame is the objective because that brings all kinds of other leverage. It’s not like he’s like, it’s not like a ego feeding fame. It’s like he can turn that into other money making opportunities.

Steven: Well then you take like a small business for example, like they have only so much energy, probably less than GaryVee. And, and then when are they gonna spend that energy? Where are they going to spend that money? And it’s like, okay, well it’s going to go back into feeding into the business, you know, putting food on the table, all of those other things like they have a family. And then so you have to be honest with yourself like, how much energy do I really have to spend on this? How much time? How much money do I really have to spend on this? Mmm. Because social media being popular online, all those other things just require like a sustained amount of energy. And I think that’s probably why so many of my things have failed in the past is because I wasn’t consistent enough. And that consistency requires energy and you gotta be able to have that energy to give.

Steven: And so when you look at like a year V, it’s just an unfair example because he just has so much energy. Like there’s not a chance I could get what he does in a average day. I would like literally die. And so I think there’s some small business owners just have to be honest with themselves. Like, how much energy do I have? How much money do I have? And like, so that way they know like this is how narrow my focus has to be. Like if I have an hour a day to spend on something, yeah. It has to be the exact right thing. And so I think when you then open up your hours as a small business owner and those, that hour becomes successful, now your four hours, you still want to be able to have those four hours be as focused as possible. So you use the drive that results.

Jordan: Yeah. And yeah, the hardest thing man, it’s, you know, what do we want?

Steven: Yeah.

Jordan: And what can we attend or what’s, and, and what’s our desire and what’s reality because we, you know, what’s the steps to get there? Are we reaching for it now? You know? Right. These are great example. That’s why I can never completely bash him. But the thing is, it always kind of disagree with is just like you said, there’s two born like him. He has, she was motivated. Is he needed to help his dad? No, he’s a go getter. He doesn’t have kids. I don’t think he has wife. I’m not sure. At least does he? Okay, cool. I didn’t even know. But his wife,

Steven: You were up with a dad that was like him, so she’s not like high maintenance.

Jordan: So that makes sense. Even that, that’s a great point too because you know, my wife’s probably a different net. She needs my help and stuff like that, that she’s, but she and I want to help in my home is important to me. Not saying that Gary abuses, but everybody’s different. You can’t try to be like Gary E cause you never wrote. You don’t, who are you? What’s your, what’s your capabilities and how, what customers will appreciate who you are. Scary, beak and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom all day. Like I said. And he’s cool with it. People love it. But most, most of us can’t. That’s trying to do that is going to be cheap.

Steven: Well most of the time. And like, not to make one of his own points, which is obnoxious, but like, like some people just like want to come home at night and watch like a TV show and so like, realistically, like their goals won’t allow them to have the outputs he has because at the end of the day, like they want to hang out with their family for three hours at the end of the day. And like he, he doesn’t as far as I know, and so, or at least not regularly. And so for someone else like you or like someone like me who like family is something that we want to spend more of our time on. Like more often. That’s like we can’t justify spending, you know, 18 hours a day working because that isn’t really in line with what we really want.

Jordan: That makes sense.

Steven: So I think only a lot of it, and that’s just a classic thing with like business owners in general is like getting caught between like the working

Jordan: Constantly. Yeah.

Steven: Where, you know, it’s like you can get yourself in a position where you’re like, you’re always, always, always working, but then you end up neglecting those other things like the wives or the kids or just like your mental,

Jordan: Mental peace of mind.

Steven: And, and I think that’s another reason why like hiring someone like you, hiring someone like me, it’s one of those things where like it can be something that Mmm, you can open up time. Like, that’s I, that’s why I hire an editor to edit my podcast because it opens up my time to pursue other things. Whether it’s

Jordan: Peace of mind

Steven: Or whether it’s like another thing in that business that I want to like try or experiment with or just deserves my specific attention. Like hiring an editor, freeze all of that up. And I can tell you that is a substantial substantial health. I mean you, cause I think you have your wife shoot photos and stuff like that for some of the businesses you work with. Like

Jordan: That’s going to be such a relief to know that she can do that.

Steven: And then you don’t have to be like the photography expert too.

Jordan: Yeah, I try to think I am sometimes. And that’s interesting because that’s really why, you know Steven and I are talking is because ideally I’d like to have him. How about with some of the video hasn’t worked out yet because I haven’t had it quite as many recently. But you know, that’s what he does. Like why should I have to keep editing video really helping people. We’ll piece together the messages. What I’m good at. Yeah. And yeah, with my wife it’s, it’s amazing, you know? And that was one of the things that it was hard at first. Like I said before, you know, we’ve really struggled you know, her just trusting that it was going to eventually come into fruition. Right. And me having this passion for what I’m doing and I’m like, I know somebody cares and she don’t care about that. She just wants me to come to dinner every night.

Jordan: And so that’s really what changed. You know, my whole perception of what I wanted my business to be like two years, three years ago maybe is, you know, like my priorities. I wanted to have dinner with my family every night. I want him to be, didn’t want to work all on the weekends and what, what do I need to do to do that? I need to go stay in my element and stay in the pre focus and stop trying to do all these marketing tasks, find some quality people that can help me. And then honest is why I started making the most money. So my time, I have more time making more money. I’m surrounded by more quality people in my clients have better results simply because I stopped being stubborn and figured out, no really what’s important to me. Mmm. But you know, have my wife be able to do that. It’s pretty cool. I think that’s something I wish everybody could do is just to have somebody that works with you because any, anytime you hire people like that or you outsource this, it’s a lot of trust. No. Yeah. You have to be. And you know, they dropped the ball. That would so it can be really stressful. Yeah. Something that’s allowed us to really carry on without making this change. Right.

Steven: Cool. So I think we probably should wrap it up here pretty soon. So so I just wanted to have like a couple of like tactical pointers for you. So you’ve worked with a lot of businesses. What are you, what do you think would be like three, two or three good things for businesses too? Mmm. That you see them going wrong and they could do better and kind of like jump-starting that beginning process of focusing?

Jordan: Hmm. Yes. Great question. I would say number one, like we have to have ample tracking. We have to have, we have to be able to measure results. I think so many times. So I asked you about the video. I don’t think, I don’t expect you to track videos or people’s results. Well, people need to understand like what’s the main goal here? What’s your call to action? Yeah. Who’s the target audience? How are we tracking the views? You know, first 10 seconds, 25% of the video. Are they watching the full video? Are they sharing it? Are they sending a message? Where’s that video out? Are they going from blending page to the contact form? Are they going from the lane page to maybe another competitor? Like you could track all this stuff when they call. You know, one of the big plugs we have is call rail.

Jordan: We have it on with all our clients to require it and it records the call. So when we have one of our clients say, Hey, we’re not getting any leads, were able to say, Hey, so and so it was really rude to some of your customers here. And which brings me number two. You know, if you’ve got employees, got multiple pieces in the marketing cycle of sales cycle, you have to be able to analyze those before you’re blaming the marketing or blaming the videos being ineffective. Because a lot of times we see these people are people, right? Whether it’s human error or they’re having a bad day and those are your employees and they can ruin that sale where they could just not care. And if you’re unable to actually track and hold them accountable and teach them, train them and, and give them a chance to be receptive.

Jordan: And if they’re not, you’ve got to move on. If you’re not willing to do that, then why are you spending money on mine? You know, you should never be putting the bugging for the horse that you got to have the foundation like for that. And in a sec. The last thing is just yeah, I always encourage everybody, you know, how, how much more vulnerable, whether that’s your story. Mine for a while, man, it was really embarrassing for me that I got fired. Yeah. I was handicap. It was a dark time for me. I didn’t want to talk about it, you know, but it’s really where I increased my faith. I’ve really got strong with my marriage. I have two stepdaughters. So really it really forced me to fail a lot in front of them and pursue my kids and show them, Hey, I’m human being too.

Jordan: And I tell that story now because it’s powerful. It shows people I’m human. I’m not trying to, I’m not trying to persuade you. I want you to trust. So being able to find ways to be vulnerable, share your story in a personable way that can maybe make you put you out there a little bit. People love that stuff because they’re human too. And what it does is they have their flaws and their mistakes and their errors. That’s probably causing them to have to call you. We need you. You know, if you’re a HVAC guy, you got to come out and fix the air conditioner. Somebody is playing Dodge ball in the house or something. I don’t know. You know, you gotta be able to say, Hey, we all make mistakes. Mmm. That’s what makes us who we are. So authenticity man. I’m huge on authenticity as much as you can do it. Live videos like this, this is great stuff. Let people see how you respond and on point. No, you vulnerable and never be afraid. That’s something can effective business negatively because you could actually be that for by not doing.

Steven: Totally. Well. And just to piggyback off one of the things you were saying like a hundred percent like, and your employees are like your biggest marketers. Like no matter how much money you spend on marketing, like the employees, okay.

Steven: The employees are the people who actually work in the business. And so you have your, like if you’re lying on your videos about how much you care about your customers, like every single employee knows that you’re full of crap and they’re going to tell everyone like, like that. I was like laugh. Like when I used to work at sprouts farmer’s market, people always think I was like a salesman for them because like they did everything in a way that I thought was so good that I like couldn’t help but like talk about how amazing their sandwiches were or like how great like every kind of meat and the meat part of it was. Because like I saw with my own two eyes and like I found the, I saw the value in it and thought it was really awesome. And so like for me, I was like practically an ambassador for sprouts because I believed in what they were doing and I believe the quality was there. So it just made it easy to talk about. And it’s like, I think sometimes managers, bosses, business owners forget the fact that like the employees aren’t just doing the work. They’re actually like advocates and ambassadors. For your brand and like there’ll be the one like calling you out if you’re like saying that you care about something you don’t care about at all or you’re not doing work, that’s I’m great. Or you’re mean to people or whatever else. Like those people will be like, no, like actually

Jordan: The kind of douche bags or you know what I mean? Or like all they care about is money or blah, blah, blah. Or they treat us badly and then that looks terrible. And that’s way more credible than any video you could possibly post on mine. Yeah. Yeah. How many employees that you fire let go or they quit? That goes to her editors. Right? Definitive. And I think, I love what you said because that’s what’s all about man. I mean, you want to have the first impression. So that’s a character, the brand, the website, that CEO, whatever. Who is that? And if it’s the front desk gal or the gal at the register of, you know, or a checkout at sprouts or guy, whatever it is, if, if you love talking, that person loves working there, they’re interested in you and they’re upbeat and happy and positive and okay, optimistic about the outlook of the company.

Jordan: Dude, you can read that and you want to come back. And this is where people don’t understand, but listen, price is this. Like you can the affordable, you could come down under cut people and always have a cheaper price. You can make money that way. Or you can raise your prices and create an experience, create a brand and can we get culture that people are drawn to? No. People want it. Alright, well that’s really what a pretty focused, that’s, that’s my end goal. That’s what I try to build. That’s what is it, what’s the first step of that process? And then what’s the last, how do we help you continue to train people, whether that’s creating a franchise, would that’s going global or international? And how do you keep that consistency, that brand consistency of that experience prevalent across them? Yeah, that’s important. So for the employees, what would you say is like the biggest thing?

Jordan: So I want to help you with some things too and be able to bring the value or showcase the value that you bring. So if somebody’s thinking about doing a video and they’re like, maybe afraid of the cost or whatever, like what could you say to speak on that? Like, Hey, like how do you explain the return of the, because I think videos, obviously they’re evergreen. They’re always there, optimize them. But a lot of people I can make that cost a thousand bucks, I can’t do that. What’s the value? So I think, yeah. For me a lot of it is what the video is for and where it lives. So a lot of times, especially if it’s a company that’s shooting video for the first time, a lot of times what they’re doing is shooting like a commercial for their business. And that commercial is just basically showing off like what they stand for, the quality of their work, and then talking about, you know, things that they want to be known for. A lot of times that goes on a landing page on their website. And so I think, Mmm. I don’t know, I remember the statistic off

Steven: The top of my head, but I want to say that like landing pages with videos do, like, it’s like, I dunno, I, it’s probably way higher than this, but I want to say it’s like 40% better. Like the conversions are like 40% better. And so my thought is is the value of the video is, is really in a lot of ways kind of dependent on what you’re selling. So if you’re selling, you know, a a thousand dollars service and you have a hundred people that go to your website every single month, right? And then you have, let’s say, you know, 10 of them convert and become clients, right? So let’s just say, you know, you do 40% better, then you’re doing like another, like two, three.

Steven: So then you’re doing 14, right? So then each one of those, so those four, I’m sure my math is terrible, but like let’s say those four extra clients that will make you 4,000 extra dollars every single month on a thousand dollar video. That’s, that’s a pretty good investment. Now if you’re selling like symbols to people who are like knitting and you make like 10 cents and thimble, well then that’s just going to take that much longer for that video to convert. But a lot of it just depends on like if people go on your website and you’re making money, then you increase how many of those people actually pay. All you have to do is kind of estimate in your brain like this. If typical any page videos do 40% better and I’m getting X amount of customers per month on my website, that’s how much more money I’m going to make.

Steven: And the reality is for most people, that video is going to pay for itself and probably like three months and then immediately start making more money. Mmm. For ever. Or, you know, until you change your product or you change your service or something else, like, like that video is going to live on there and obviously you’re going to want to update it here and there. Like maybe employees change locations, change services you offer change. But I mean I think, I guess I think it kind of depends on website traffic and what they’re selling, but chances are that if you just did the math in your head, the reason to do a video and spend even several thousand dollars would be substantial. [inaudible] ROI, excuse me. I think if you’re just posting videos on like Instagram and Facebook and YouTube, just realizing that that is like a longterm play and knowing that there’s like a strategy involved in that and that’s something that like, someone like you would be really great to set it up because it’s like if you have a strategy, then you can put together a plan and so that you’re not just like putting videos out there and hoping someone sees them in one day they visit your website.

Steven: One day they decided to, you know, spend money. It’s like if they’re going to the right people at the right times and there’s like a system like go watch this video and then they watch this video and then they get this email and then they get this call to action and then now they’re spending money. Then you actually have like a plan, have that return on investment.

Jordan: Otherwise you’re just posting things to Facebook and as cool as that sounds and cools, it seems like the reality is is that it’s going to take a long time to start making money if you don’t have a plan. That’s a great, these are always a little hard to kind of determine at that point if there’s no plan. Yeah, and that’s why it’s so important. Know you’ve touched on is perfect. You got to understand like everyone, what’s your acquisition cost? What? Like if you’re selling thimbles as a great example because you know, what’s it cost per thimble? What do you have to make? No, that could be a little bit more difficult versus, you know, for me, you know, if I saw $2,000 brain development, that’s where it’s like I can spend a thousand on ads or YouTube or whatever and still have a two no, the one return or whatever the case may be is, you know, when I acquire that customer, are they going to continue spending?

Jordan: Could it actually be 10,000 and not just two. You know, being able to understand those things before you’re going in, you know, cause it can be scary to spend that much money. But then also understanding. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, man, I love it. I love it. So being able to, you got it on YouTube, you got her on Facebook. That’s just not enough. It’s just not enough. Mmm. You know, you got it on a landing page, you’ve got it on YouTube, on Facebook, you got it on LinkedIn and you got a snippet on Twitter that links to the YouTube page. You got a call to action on the lane page. You got follow up video. Sad. But I, I want to say just to end the call here, just cause I know we’re throwing a lot at people right now if you have to leave and watch this all the way to the end.

Jordan: But search engine optimization, SEO is something that’s really misunderstood a lot. And it’s not about keyword cramming, it’s about topics. It’s about deliverables really. And so I can send a video, for example, editing right now it’s about exactly four and me and Eric skins. Mmm. Talk about this four ways is exasperate me. Yeah, I think it was okay. Abuse, verbal abuse ignoring making fun of or embarrassment or something like that. So I could do that via video on YouTube. Yeah. Each of those four things. Pretty separate videos, publish those on Facebook and stuff.

Jordan: Oops, I got it. Why video ended. That’s fine. Anyway, so you, you see my point and I’m building a story. So when somebody watches, okay. Point number one is this, now I clicked the point number two and what it tells Google or where the platform you’re at, even on Facebook and stuff, it tells then or tells you that they want to continue reading. So it says this video is good, which is why it measure measurable and it also gives you more titles like ignoring your children can causing them to withdrawal. You know, so anybody that’s searching anything like that, they find that and then they watched all four of them. Then they watched the whole thing. Then they share it because they found you because they’re searching online. There’s just so many ways to maximize your video. So I’d like to offer, you know, the next customer that you’re working with that’s interested in doing something like that.

Jordan: I’m willing to, we’ll help you guys map that out for free. And just so that you have a case study and I have a T study that shows I have 45 minutes. Explain your video on YouTube about, but to just see that maximizing your spider. No, you’re trying to catch a slot. I’m just going to have a spiderweb up in that corner. You want to have one up down the whole wall? No. So when something’s flying by, they’re going to stick on and then they’re going to look up to see where they’re at and they’re going to find that despite it. It’s kind of maybe once you start that analogy and then they die.

Jordan: SEO is huge. Especially right now. Everybody’s doing video. Everybody wants to publish topics. They’re on the same things. And if you’re able to take that topic and build it out like a book, like a story with different chapters that are all raking online, man, I’m telling you, we have 10, 15 clients right now that just dominating a couple of searches because we get them all and that, that takes the thousand dollar investment that could turn before now it turns to 40. Yeah, that’s what, that’s what’s magical though. Everybody has got to make money no matter how, you know how much of a, I’m not anthropologist, a philanthropist that you are, and then I’m going to how much you want to give back and care for people. The reality is, is like you got to keep the doors open, you got to pay for air conditioning, you gotta feed your family.

Jordan: And so having those things that you have in place to make great money is super huge. Mmm. And that’s awesome that you’re able to do that SEO for them too. Like obviously that’s usually important without getting into it. Like, we transcribe our videos and do stuff like that, just so that way, like the video content is like searchable and usable for captions on it, the whole nine yards, just because that text is so important still. Like Google has a long way to go before it’s going to be able to like watch videos and know what it’s about. And so you know, we try to do everything we can to make the SEO happen, but clearly that’s paying dividends for your clients and to be able to have those search engines pop them up because that’s how they make money. Can’t make money without getting people to your website. Yeah. Brand identity development, webinar searching. It’s all free. I did it a couple of years ago. Everything that’s on there. Mmm, well we are here. I want to, that’s what we love to do. You know, we ended up making a video for you or building a brand for you. That’s all, you know. Well shoot me. Yeah, shoot me the link to that and I’ll put it in the YouTube. All right, sweet man. Well thank you so much for jumping on here. I’m so glad we were able to finally do this. And

Steven: This is just a prefix, right? So, yeah. So maybe just for the end of the video, just tell me like where people can find you online.

Jordan: Yeah, pre It’s not pretty I’m probably most active on Instagram and that’s pretty focus. So yeah, just keep I don’t have a lot of content going on an hour, a lot of building right now, so there’s not really a lot to follow, but a lot of great tips on my blog, a lot of transparency, a lot of them just failures that I’ve had and things that I’ve learned you want to read through. A lot of the stuff’s pretty long. You know, give me some feedback. I love feedback. I love questions and that’s why, you know, just going back and forth for me. That’s what I feel. Cool.

Steven: Awesome. Well thanks to you so much for doing this. This is awesome.

Jordan: No problem. Hey man, thanks for having me. Staying persistent on me too.

Steven: A hundred percent. Just so you know, the live video on Instagram ended itself. I did not end that live stream. I guess there’s a cap

Jordan: Probably an hour, cause we are one of four right now.

Steven: Oh, okay. Yeah, that’s totally what it was. Cause it was like all of a sudden it was recording and then it was like live call ending on 30 seconds. And I’m like, Oh, okay. That’s cool. So just I didn’t want you to think I was like ending the livestream in the middle of you talking on purpose.

Jordan: No, it just startled me.

Steven  I saw you see it. I don’t know. Okay. I see.